differentiate views and modules

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differentiate views and modules

Mathieu CHAMAGNE

when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu


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Re: differentiate views and modules

Théo de la Hogue
Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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Re: differentiate views and modules

Pascal Baltazar-5
+1
maybe a thicker border ?

Pascal Baltazar
[hidden email]
http://www.baltazars.org

On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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Re: differentiate views and modules

Théo de la Hogue
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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Re: differentiate views and modules

Mathieu CHAMAGNE

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..

but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.

but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?

…TO ?


or script create a panel with a big border

…quite ugly. isn’t it ?

but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…


maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…

or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?


here are a couple of examples :



<pre><code>

----------begin_max5_patcher----------

900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9

brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB

uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK

ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5

RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo

pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk

5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN

67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX

2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y

YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6

lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo

7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO

Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy

NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh

3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW

7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj

B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE

7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD

5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q

Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN

D+h0

-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

</code></pre>



I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)


so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?





2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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Re: differentiate views and modules

Pascal Baltazar-5
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 


there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???


Pascal Baltazar
[hidden email]
http://www.baltazars.org

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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Re: differentiate views and modules

Mathieu CHAMAGNE
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 


there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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Re: differentiate views and modules

Pascal Baltazar-5
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 

Pascal Baltazar
[hidden email]
http://www.baltazars.org

On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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jln
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Re: differentiate views and modules

jln
Administrator
Hi,

I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:

- in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
- in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute

This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.

Best,
Julien


On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 

Pascal Baltazar
[hidden email]
http://www.baltazars.org


2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



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Re: differentiate views and modules

Mathieu CHAMAGNE
hey

I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...

I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.

maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...

does anybody cares ?

M


________________
Mathieu Chamagne
[hidden email]
http://mathieuchamagne.com

2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:

- in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
- in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute

This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.

Best,
Julien


On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 


2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



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Re: differentiate views and modules

Pascal Baltazar-5
Hey !

I think it would be a good idea to do so… if you have a proposal, I think we’re all ears !

Pascal Baltazar
[hidden email]
http://www.baltazars.org

Le 17 sept. 2015 à 16:19, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :

hey

I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...

I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.

maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...

does anybody cares ?

M


________________
Mathieu Chamagne
[hidden email]
http://mathieuchamagne.com

2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:

- in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
- in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute

This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.

Best,
Julien


On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 


2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



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Re: differentiate views and modules

Trond Lossius
Administrator
Hi,

I’m unsure, I see some arguments for both positions, and I currently don’t see one of them as being so much stronger than the other that I am able to come to a clear conclusion.

In e.g. help patchers, i certainly understand your concern, Mathieu, and I believe this is a real problem that should be addressed. I’m not quite sure how though. I see two possibilities: The one you propose, or alternatively that we impose a policy where we will never use modules in help patchers, only models and views. The one thing that can be ruled out is a policy where we only use modules in help patchers. E.g. the help patch for dbap=.model use several views towards the same view, and the same goes for the help files for several other models. This is so beneficial that if we have to choose between all modules or all models and views, my vote would go for all models and views.

However, if I make a patch of my own, and I mix and match model, views and modules, it is very likely that I eventually end up adding views and modules to presentation view, and use presentation view in performance/installation. If so, I honestly don’t care if I am interacting with a view or a model, I just want to play with them and focus on the content that is produced. At this stage, I am beyond the point where I care or want to think about how the logical connections and structure is made up. hence, in this situation I would find any visual information that discriminate between views/modules an undesired distraction.

I guess this is the crux of the question: When you in programming mode, it matters whether something is a view or module, as this informs the reading of what logically goes on in the patch in front of you. But when you are in play mode, you do not want to be exposed to this information any longer.

Do we manage to find a solution that can cater for both situations? If not, I’d say that the second best is to impose a policy on the help patchers, so that at least there is a degree of consistence there.

Best,
Trond


> On 17 Sep 2015, at 19:01, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hey !
>
> I think it would be a good idea to do so… if you have a proposal, I think we’re all ears !
>
> Pascal Baltazar
> [hidden email]
> http://www.baltazars.org
>
>> Le 17 sept. 2015 à 16:19, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>> hey
>>
>> I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
>> there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
>> when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
>> we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...
>>
>> I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.
>>
>> maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...
>>
>> does anybody cares ?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> ________________
>> Mathieu Chamagne
>> [hidden email]
>> http://mathieuchamagne.com
>>
>> 2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:
>>
>> - in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
>> - in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute
>>
>> This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.
>>
>> Best,
>> Julien
>>
>>
>> On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I think that would need more visible ways than that…
>>
>> Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??
>>
>> well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
>> like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along...
>>
>> Pascal Baltazar
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.baltazars.org
>>
>>
>> 2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
>> I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
>> namely border_thickness and cornersize
>> this is the result :
>>
>> normal current aspect :
>> <PastedGraphic-1.png>
>>
>> propositions wit :
>> border_thickness 3.
>> <PastedGraphic-2.png>
>> border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1.
>> <PastedGraphic-3.png>
>>
>> there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
>> also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?
>>
>> Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though
>> and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???
>>
>>
>> Pascal Baltazar
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.baltazars.org 
>>
>> On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
>>> but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
>>> but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
>>> …TO ?
>>>
>>> or script create a panel with a big border
>>> …quite ugly. isn’t it ?
>>> but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…
>>>
>>> maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
>>> or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?
>>>
>>> here are a couple of examples :
>>>
>>>
>>> <pre><code>
>>> ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
>>> 900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
>>> brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
>>> uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
>>> ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
>>> RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
>>> pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
>>> 5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
>>> 67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
>>> 2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
>>> YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
>>> lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
>>> 7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
>>> Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
>>> NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
>>> 3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
>>> 7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
>>> B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
>>> 7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
>>> 5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
>>> Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
>>> D+h0
>>> -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
>>> </code></pre>
>>>
>>>
>>> I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)
>>>
>>> so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________
>>> Mathieu Chamagne
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://mathieuchamagne.com 
>>> http://www.maxobjects.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
>>> I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...
>>>
>>> Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> +1
>>>> maybe a thicker border ?
>>>>
>>>> Pascal Baltazar
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://www.baltazars.org 
>>>>
>>>> On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mathieu !
>>>>>
>>>>> this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).
>>>>>
>>>>> another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?
>>>>>
>>>>> <pre><code>
>>>>> ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
>>>>> 509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
>>>>> mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
>>>>> 0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
>>>>> o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
>>>>> c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
>>>>> Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
>>>>> 7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
>>>>> nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
>>>>> SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
>>>>> qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
>>>>> UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
>>>>> VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
>>>>> -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
>>>>> </code></pre>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> TO
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
>>>>>> there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
>>>>>> I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
>>>>>> maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
>>>>>> maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
>>>>>> add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
>>>>>> any idea ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <pre><code>
>>>>>> ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
>>>>>> 661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
>>>>>> .aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
>>>>>> mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
>>>>>> CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
>>>>>> mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
>>>>>> zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
>>>>>> E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
>>>>>> w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
>>>>>> hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
>>>>>> LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
>>>>>> 1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
>>>>>> ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
>>>>>> 5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
>>>>>> ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
>>>>>> FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
>>>>>> -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
>>>>>> </code></pre>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mathieu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________
>>>>>> Mathieu Chamagne
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> http://mathieuchamagne.com 
>>>>>> http://www.maxobjects.com 
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>>>>>
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>> On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
>>> we should find something more evident.
>>>
>>> other options would be :
>>> - add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
>>> (maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)
>>>
>>>
>>> - define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
>>> (but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> ________________
>>> Mathieu Chamagne
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://mathieuchamagne.com 
>>> http://www.maxobjects.com 
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: differentiate views and modules

jln
Administrator
In reply to this post by Mathieu CHAMAGNE
HI,

I thought we already opted for a model+view policy in maxhelps. At least, that’s the one I applied. See j.cue maxhelp for instance.

Regarding modules and view, I think I’d favor a visual distinction, although I dont have a strong opinion. Of course, if we can have a way to add a visual distinction for module only when in patching mode, then I’m all for it.

That being said, as for myself, mixing modules and views really is something I consider bad practice in my own work.

Best,
Julien




On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

hey

I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...

I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.

maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...

does anybody cares ?

M


________________
Mathieu Chamagne
[hidden email]
http://mathieuchamagne.com

2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:

- in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
- in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute

This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.

Best,
Julien


On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 


2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



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Re: differentiate views and modules

Renaud Rubiano
Hi, 

Maybe I will say something wrong, but do we really need modules?
I understand that modules are nice for teaching, but I just want to be sure that someone use them. If not, we can just provide models and view in the Jamoma package.

If you want to use modules because you don,t want to earn too much skills on max programming, vizzzie or beap are ready for the job.
And if you are using jamoma, you will probably prefers model/address messages to j.view more than modules, or prefers different view for a same model.

Maybe I'm too,much focused on my own practise, but I prefers to ask this question.

My 2 cents :-/

Cheers

Renaud




Le 17 sept. 2015 à 21:55, Julien Rabin <[hidden email]> a écrit :

HI,

I thought we already opted for a model+view policy in maxhelps. At least, that’s the one I applied. See j.cue maxhelp for instance.

Regarding modules and view, I think I’d favor a visual distinction, although I dont have a strong opinion. Of course, if we can have a way to add a visual distinction for module only when in patching mode, then I’m all for it.

That being said, as for myself, mixing modules and views really is something I consider bad practice in my own work.

Best,
Julien




On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

hey

I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...

I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.

maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...

does anybody cares ?

M


________________
Mathieu Chamagne
[hidden email]
http://mathieuchamagne.com

2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:

- in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
- in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute

This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.

Best,
Julien


On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 


2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



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Re: differentiate views and modules

tap
Hi Renaud,

I fully disagree with this sentiment.  I understand that the "full power" of Jamoma is best realized through the separation of model and view.  However, it is trivial for us to include modules -- and to alienate potential users or make it more difficult to start is not helpful.  If the reason to not include modules is because it is hard to tell the difference from views then we have completely missed the boat.

Bjarne Stroustrup (the lead developer behind C++) often says that C++ is expert-friendly, and he acknowledges the importance of being expert friendly.  But he also is quite firm that simply being expert friendly is not enough.  Especially when it is not difficult to offer a path to those, who currently are not experts, to grow into future contributors, experts, and colleagues.

best,

Tim


On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Renaud Rubiano <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, 

Maybe I will say something wrong, but do we really need modules?
I understand that modules are nice for teaching, but I just want to be sure that someone use them. If not, we can just provide models and view in the Jamoma package.

If you want to use modules because you don,t want to earn too much skills on max programming, vizzzie or beap are ready for the job.
And if you are using jamoma, you will probably prefers model/address messages to j.view more than modules, or prefers different view for a same model.

Maybe I'm too,much focused on my own practise, but I prefers to ask this question.

My 2 cents :-/

Cheers

Renaud




Le 17 sept. 2015 à 21:55, Julien Rabin <[hidden email]> a écrit :

HI,

I thought we already opted for a model+view policy in maxhelps. At least, that’s the one I applied. See j.cue maxhelp for instance.

Regarding modules and view, I think I’d favor a visual distinction, although I dont have a strong opinion. Of course, if we can have a way to add a visual distinction for module only when in patching mode, then I’m all for it.

That being said, as for myself, mixing modules and views really is something I consider bad practice in my own work.

Best,
Julien




On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

hey

I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...

I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.

maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...

does anybody cares ?

M


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2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:

- in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
- in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute

This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.

Best,
Julien


On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 


2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



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Re: differentiate views and modules

Mathieu CHAMAGNE
I must say that I never use modules myself...
Showing only views in presentation mode is certainly the way to go to make clean performance patches.
I completely agree that help patchers should use only models + views (the goal of help patchers is to show how things work, so it's not the right place to hide the essential in patchers !)

but : it's not a reason to forget modules forever !
there could be for example one tutorial "using models & views as modules" with a simple example, and that should be enough to show the concept.
so the modules can stay next to the models in the folder, but not used in the help patches.
(and we get rid of this discussion, because none of us will never use modules any more, so we don't care about making them look different :-)

by the way : 
Jamoma/patchers/modules/data/...
...is it the right name for this folder ?...

have a nice day

Mathieu


________________
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2015-09-18 1:01 GMT+02:00 Timothy Place <[hidden email]>:
Hi Renaud,

I fully disagree with this sentiment.  I understand that the "full power" of Jamoma is best realized through the separation of model and view.  However, it is trivial for us to include modules -- and to alienate potential users or make it more difficult to start is not helpful.  If the reason to not include modules is because it is hard to tell the difference from views then we have completely missed the boat.

Bjarne Stroustrup (the lead developer behind C++) often says that C++ is expert-friendly, and he acknowledges the importance of being expert friendly.  But he also is quite firm that simply being expert friendly is not enough.  Especially when it is not difficult to offer a path to those, who currently are not experts, to grow into future contributors, experts, and colleagues.

best,

Tim


On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Renaud Rubiano <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, 

Maybe I will say something wrong, but do we really need modules?
I understand that modules are nice for teaching, but I just want to be sure that someone use them. If not, we can just provide models and view in the Jamoma package.

If you want to use modules because you don,t want to earn too much skills on max programming, vizzzie or beap are ready for the job.
And if you are using jamoma, you will probably prefers model/address messages to j.view more than modules, or prefers different view for a same model.

Maybe I'm too,much focused on my own practise, but I prefers to ask this question.

My 2 cents :-/

Cheers

Renaud




Le 17 sept. 2015 à 21:55, Julien Rabin <[hidden email]> a écrit :

HI,

I thought we already opted for a model+view policy in maxhelps. At least, that’s the one I applied. See j.cue maxhelp for instance.

Regarding modules and view, I think I’d favor a visual distinction, although I dont have a strong opinion. Of course, if we can have a way to add a visual distinction for module only when in patching mode, then I’m all for it.

That being said, as for myself, mixing modules and views really is something I consider bad practice in my own work.

Best,
Julien




On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

hey

I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...

I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.

maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...

does anybody cares ?

M


________________
Mathieu Chamagne
[hidden email]
http://mathieuchamagne.com

2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
Hi,

I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:

- in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
- in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute

This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.

Best,
Julien


On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think that would need more visible ways than that…

Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??

well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along... 


2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
namely border_thickness and cornersize 
this is the result :

normal current aspect :
<PastedGraphic-1.png>

propositions wit :
border_thickness 3.
<PastedGraphic-2.png>
border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1. 
<PastedGraphic-3.png>

there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?

Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though 
and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???

On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:

for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
…TO ?

or script create a panel with a big border
…quite ugly. isn’t it ?
but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…

maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?

here are a couple of examples :


<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
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lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
D+h0
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)

so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?




2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...

Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :

+1
maybe a thicker border ?


On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Mathieu !

this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).

another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Best,
TO

Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :


when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
any idea ?

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
.aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>


Mathieu

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On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
we should find something more evident.

other options would be :
- add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
(maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)


- define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
(but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)

M



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Re: differentiate views and modules

Trond Lossius
Administrator
I’m fine with this, Mathieu. And please go ahead and rename the folder as well.

Best,
Trond

> On 18 Sep 2015, at 08:34, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I must say that I never use modules myself...
> Showing only views in presentation mode is certainly the way to go to make clean performance patches.
> I completely agree that help patchers should use only models + views (the goal of help patchers is to show how things work, so it's not the right place to hide the essential in patchers !)
>
> but : it's not a reason to forget modules forever !
> there could be for example one tutorial "using models & views as modules" with a simple example, and that should be enough to show the concept.
> so the modules can stay next to the models in the folder, but not used in the help patches.
> (and we get rid of this discussion, because none of us will never use modules any more, so we don't care about making them look different :-)
>
> by the way :
> Jamoma/patchers/modules/data/...
> ...is it the right name for this folder ?...
>
> have a nice day
>
> Mathieu
>
>
> ________________
> Mathieu Chamagne
> [hidden email]
> http://mathieuchamagne.com
>
> 2015-09-18 1:01 GMT+02:00 Timothy Place <[hidden email]>:
> Hi Renaud,
>
> I fully disagree with this sentiment.  I understand that the "full power" of Jamoma is best realized through the separation of model and view.  However, it is trivial for us to include modules -- and to alienate potential users or make it more difficult to start is not helpful.  If the reason to not include modules is because it is hard to tell the difference from views then we have completely missed the boat.
>
> Bjarne Stroustrup (the lead developer behind C++) often says that C++ is expert-friendly, and he acknowledges the importance of being expert friendly.  But he also is quite firm that simply being expert friendly is not enough.  Especially when it is not difficult to offer a path to those, who currently are not experts, to grow into future contributors, experts, and colleagues.
>
> best,
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:14 PM, Renaud Rubiano <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Maybe I will say something wrong, but do we really need modules?
> I understand that modules are nice for teaching, but I just want to be sure that someone use them. If not, we can just provide models and view in the Jamoma package.
>
> If you want to use modules because you don,t want to earn too much skills on max programming, vizzzie or beap are ready for the job.
> And if you are using jamoma, you will probably prefers model/address messages to j.view more than modules, or prefers different view for a same model.
>
> Maybe I'm too,much focused on my own practise, but I prefers to ask this question.
>
> My 2 cents :-/
>
> Cheers
>
> Renaud
>
>
>
>
> Le 17 sept. 2015 à 21:55, Julien Rabin <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> HI,
>>
>> I thought we already opted for a model+view policy in maxhelps. At least, that’s the one I applied. See j.cue maxhelp for instance.
>>
>> Regarding modules and view, I think I’d favor a visual distinction, although I dont have a strong opinion. Of course, if we can have a way to add a visual distinction for module only when in patching mode, then I’m all for it.
>>
>> That being said, as for myself, mixing modules and views really is something I consider bad practice in my own work.
>>
>> Best,
>> Julien
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> hey
>>
>> I'd like to dig this discussion, because we never found any satisfying solution, and I still think something is missing here:
>> there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
>> when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
>> we now have help patches using modules, some other using models+views ...
>>
>> I think it's important to make it clear before the forthcoming release.
>>
>> maybe there's no need to reinvent the wheel, here... just find a convention to make modules look different ? ...
>>
>> does anybody cares ?
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> ________________
>> Mathieu Chamagne
>> [hidden email]
>> http://mathieuchamagne.com
>>
>> 2014-09-01 10:41 GMT+02:00 Julien Rabin <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I quite like having a different color for j.ui header depending on being in a view or a module. Maybe not *very* different but different enough to quickly get what is what imho. We could go slightly further and simply remove the header color in a case. ie:
>>
>> - in a view, j.ui’s header color is set to j.ui background color
>> - in a module, j.ui's header color is set to its color attribute
>>
>> This is a bit more distinctive, work with all Jamoma object default and we dont have to add another attribute for module header color.
>>
>> Best,
>> Julien
>>
>>
>> On 31 août 2014 12:00:45, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I think that would need more visible ways than that…
>>
>> Maybe something in the .module patcher, that would look like a rack or something… ??
>>
>> well something that makes it look *very* different from a view…
>> like if the design showed that behind the view there is the internals coming along...
>>
>> Pascal Baltazar
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.baltazars.org
>>
>>
>> 2014-08-30 13:30 GMT+02:00 Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]>:
>> I have made some experiments tinkering with variables in the source code of j.ui
>> namely border_thickness and cornersize
>> this is the result :
>>
>> normal current aspect :
>> <PastedGraphic-1.png>
>>
>> propositions wit :
>> border_thickness 3.
>> <PastedGraphic-2.png>
>> border_thickness 3. + cornersize 1.
>> <PastedGraphic-3.png>
>>
>> there are some little glitches, like a kind of offset of the title bar widgets and text when increasing the border size
>> also on both examples above the bordercolor has been set to black, and it’s hardly gray… ?!?
>>
>> Anyway, I don’t know of the difference is visible enough, though
>> and anyway, it is not very visible in any of you propositions either Mathieu, so maybe we need something more radical…???
>>
>>
>> Pascal Baltazar
>> [hidden email]
>> http://www.baltazars.org 
>>
>> On 29 Aug 2014, at 17:55, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> for sure, a thicker view would be more easy to make the difference..
>>> but as you said, a bpatcher can only have a border of 1 pixel.
>>> but maybe it’s not too hard to add a border attribute to j.ui itself, in order to change border size ?
>>> …TO ?
>>>
>>> or script create a panel with a big border
>>> …quite ugly. isn’t it ?
>>> but you don’t miss it’s a module, for sure…
>>>
>>> maybe adding a symbol / icon / widget… in the tittle bar would be more elegant…
>>> or just colorize the tittle bar ? or the address ?
>>>
>>> here are a couple of examples :
>>>
>>>
>>> <pre><code>
>>> ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
>>> 900.3oc2X0saZCCF8Z3ovJWsJwxhc9Clzzzd.5s6lwzjShI31fMywzxVU2y9
>>> brSntpIz.jBZiKhv+6uy47crSdX7HmD9VRoC3ifuAFM5gwiFoqpphQ0kG4rB
>>> uMs.Wp6lSJe0JBS5LwzljrUpq200sotEblrj9aRU8Ayb8lFhfw0ssVPJUCGK
>>> ob1ODjToYsgwwtdS.Qy7bCm.7p9u5A360ihsYEkUPj5s.7oJ4ajM050r.XY5
>>> RJK2ZxQd95IOdZ0jGB0EfVS+BQdhdNbalEZlNn3I27dDzNtX3U53x4KBJtvo
>>> pgGGOt5wjSD.kKoo2BR3hLhnMjDh1s65.DClpAQTT7a.HFDqwMjGpZxggSMk
>>> 5MJ5cdPwzkXVNATUFrhmQJ.3rLEbUdEHkWvEfO2gP0BdGDfJzeVEPg7NPfBN
>>> 67.TeXAsPRDtH6VzPTcFoQ9D5AmEAqUSOKmwF6fCD1AilYvNsBFFEcfXWTqX
>>> 2WIhLLCeLnWhdS9TB4t4zfd+wUow1TPbUCR0yldYBV4uVSLgkSIMmonuI1+y
>>> YWL0kmXjNcNLVKj78LTfWnEZfE40l2N6ny1y2QsRE96gJBCrjwst5I4V5kF6
>>> lVjJ1LT7Ppgu9cZz+p4r4NWO2APS4rp7cRFfx.xkDv8zrbhDjfEyYMCufxHo
>>> 7MLoMBbnNsZkYPHxNpGVm1.XnkSaPbuSBBNOFHWauLKvoD6f8MwY0+Y.CRqO
>>> Q89bbH5+JygXeiBL7BZNTyDCl4f2fdSfpkWIAy.RpTETUl.fOALbx43F.noy
>>> NpqJMvW.XMlQJbFlimMzdcfUS6p.KrcVusqPX2YqXN9et7uo5vw2O3Bl+8bh
>>> 3jy+hNY4U8auXs4GDAGLD023Lp5W7jN9W61NCoqS21KHu8aujrIIofbbFNlW
>>> 7qFllEXTl80uI77beg6nj6O23Rj4XJ8GUnIgsuvx.eMpKpYUnQdnAfKiU0Aj
>>> B2GqJzPPAXFiavJcyLNizI6TodeMt4U4gHcHYd1Sd.5r+2pnfmdKIKSfyKSE
>>> 7hhtySf8fi5biYC8G0wDLx8pA2AxWphTBGfXY.8AH.JU.L.f5VakpqvodutD
>>> 5O2fy9yK7UrxeHEfcv19uf2AlWcho.Z2Ye8m1.Be42zvBb8Q8y0QOVG7502Q
>>> Dk0vnF2Un9MlTonI5hTlonl9cDj6nM8eptFrPsckp85FgYs1NshfUqyii+KN
>>> D+h0
>>> -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
>>> </code></pre>
>>>
>>>
>>> I already know that the color trick won’t fit the ones of us who use color shemes (JamomaNoir …)
>>>
>>> so maybe the M widget is more elegant ?
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________
>>> Mathieu Chamagne
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://mathieuchamagne.com 
>>> http://www.maxobjects.com 
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-08-29 13:33 GMT+02:00 Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]>:
>>> I can't find any attribute to thicken the border in bpatcher inspector ...
>>>
>>> Le 29 août 2014 à 13:25, Pascal Baltazar <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> +1
>>>> maybe a thicker border ?
>>>>
>>>> Pascal Baltazar
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://www.baltazars.org 
>>>>
>>>> On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:45, Théo de la Hogue <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mathieu !
>>>>>
>>>>> this one is easier because there is a place where I check if the j.ui is inside a module bpatcher (to resize the module bpatcher too).
>>>>>
>>>>> another option could be to enable the border of the module bpatcher ?
>>>>>
>>>>> <pre><code>
>>>>> ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
>>>>> 509.3ocyTFrjbBBDF9r9TPwYikhilYxs7bjJUJP6wvFDLHN6jr0tO6AA0koV
>>>>> mLYS1C4BkzcC8Oesc+PbDloNCCXzGPeBEE8PbTjyzjgn48Q3N54ZAcvEFtV0
>>>>> 0ARCNw6y.mMN6cplQArX9nRZF3+DlbQxRylMKG63RAXbWU9rQ1HiIfPKG0sr
>>>>> o8WbP0nY4jKV6ol5uxkseQC0F+iX26OXODhP1mVlfNraZSQQZF5yymg23jqh
>>>>> c26JCUqj14z.9iZNUfmb7Xb7zRx+HYNwg6+egK6ylvx9reGV181hElSMfd4V
>>>>> Ys0JgR6kkSHOujGnH+6x7idvGJdf2JsRHI7K7Z38ZXvRepgqjAu67R285VKx
>>>>> 7IIqLHMWfdxlXsXQ4JcCnCKHa.57JGnyOPlH8loLf0jEprx4ibgAzOk56mRs
>>>>> nzljknn514l043RIVB7FTTnRoxyNmaoRt1J+h5vMYdk6M6WuMyWXoPU+MnoQ
>>>>> SaGp0JgHz2k0iaS+xqWuCge0Uo+TO6MYe9eG6kv81reExOXuXPgHxFj6uMDm
>>>>> qQ97gXzAvZVhX7uORad5ESZB92ADnUUtwrmbx5HjWYe1qneYi5SwTdQ9YQ44
>>>>> UtQ0YaWcJH+YygbmES66OA5gYL53tk524myTk31xkpm6dwZ3DeIde.TsUtFq
>>>>> VG09bcdekMS177X7ubaz3FA
>>>>> -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
>>>>> </code></pre>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> TO
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 29 août 2014 à 11:14, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when in the same patch you have models + views AND modules (containing their own models & views) ... it's a mess !
>>>>>> there is no easy way to know if a bpatcher contains a view or a module.
>>>>>> I think it would be very useful to have some sort of convention (or function ?) to differentiate them :
>>>>>> maybe something with the color of j.ui ?
>>>>>> maybe a sign in the tittle bar ?
>>>>>> add a border, or a texture, or anything to clearly make a difference when it's a module.
>>>>>> any idea ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <pre><code>
>>>>>> ----------begin_max5_patcher----------
>>>>>> 661.3ocwVtsbaBCDF9Z7SgFtpcFGJhS1N2zoOGY5zQ.avxUH4JIRbaljm8Jj
>>>>>> .aRL9PrSmdgAqEg1UeZ+2kml34mK1.Jezsn6PddOMwyyZp0fW2XO+ZxlBFQY
>>>>>> mlegntF3Z+otmogM5N6Lgj9G.UKJaX.5qAAA8Sh2TKZzLPaWhvNqzR6KJxWc
>>>>>> CNsep2K3ZNoFrO5aRJg0+j0DcwRJu5GRnP6h3nEoAgSQwQQs2vogs2hLWQee
>>>>>> mmo7dGi68grJ2FHAgC7pxD71YYVrVqOOYR6komIWpAkhTA6wkF5sKoUKYleZ
>>>>>> zJRsnlLNVvifkvSiE2Jn+8ZvwDe+sa9QHFd17gDCaIFd1gHVzX7AGjtHEOe1
>>>>>> E.IN7nYesGiVEn.dI5K2SYZP9xmdfBO94ymRw+qnTxLGklcl4UWeVzgTWNQ0
>>>>>> w0S4M44L3.P5xDXIYI1sNNNHcJZgcPb70ouZ43GHYZyUtBtjbMbIKsEKyC+O
>>>>>> hkbazAxwQPbmUhrpqHuuSiEDMP.HAi7SSzTAevdztqbasPWYhvzAawALL5fp
>>>>>> LEsh2Bxg+63JuzDWEo3C53QKPs8jqqDRfSvDXXkwK9e.fkv4BGibUxDb33Un
>>>>>> 1m43Sx7Da+L20SR8rd+yDE+DJKkjJUgTvXCih2YgOG9SBOO5iOD8aEkWA6ec
>>>>>> ah2PdkwCf.EYZXHjkfDQoRjywnbhBLl4nb5uZHkurW0hAoG.Cs8b4nhmALON
>>>>>> 5BZ079EA19MtRLXb1wa9Dc5lO1WzmQ4u8K8r9t09qOKThFYQez2+cHnc9uDT
>>>>>> ZJe6Ixc6ZCOXRKokk.eXc3RphXJDao49gGY85G.opaMsghIoXkP1NLapcHk6
>>>>>> FZy67kvCz94O2ZgHMnTa3XizcvrYdlI+y3mmm7W.rDTlW.
>>>>>> -----------end_max5_patcher-----------
>>>>>> </code></pre>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mathieu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________
>>>>>> Mathieu Chamagne
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> http://mathieuchamagne.com 
>>>>>> http://www.maxobjects.com 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Slashdot TV.  
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>>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>> On 31 Aug 2014, at 10:42, Mathieu CHAMAGNE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I agree, I don't think the j.ui border trick is clear enough...
>>> we should find something more evident.
>>>
>>> other options would be :
>>> - add a widget/symbol/logo somewhere in the tittle bar
>>> (maybe just before the model/address, on the left side, on order to separate it from other control widget)
>>>
>>>
>>> - define different colors for j.ui (or only it's tittle bar ?) when it's a module / view.
>>> (but that would mean that user can't freely choose the color of he's j.ui any more... I'm fine with it.. but I guess that jamomaNoir adepts won't like it !)
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> ________________
>>> Mathieu Chamagne
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://mathieuchamagne.com 
>>> http://www.maxobjects.com 
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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